“He wants it to be a fair deal.”
That’s how Robert Doar, the president of the American Enterprise Institute, describes U.S. President Donald Trump’s approach to foreign policy. In a wide-ranging interview with Independence Avenue Media, Doar, who credits the administration with several foreign policy successes, also argues that a “lack of clarity” on American values has, at times, strained ties with allies and dented the United States’ standing abroad.
“I think it is true that our lack of clarity on our objectives and our goals and our values and our hostility toward allies has led to us being viewed less favorably in the world,” Doar says. “That, in certain situations, is a problem because we’re gonna need our allies at some point. And we have some work to do on that.”
Still, Doar pushes back on the stereotype of Trump as an isolationist, pointing to the administration’s willingness to project power in Venezuela, Ukraine and Iran. “He wants to make sure American interests are looked out for,” Doar says. “And he also has a desire that we’re not being taken advantage of financially — that we don’t pay a bigger share of the bill or the cost or the casualties than any other part of the world that’s also engaged.”
This, says Doar, sometimes causes friction with allies that has led to the United States being viewed less favorably in the world.
He views some of the criticisms of the president’s foreign policy as misplaced. On the eve of the July 7-8 NATO summit in Ankara, Turkiye — and with Trump still furious at members for what he says was a lack of support for the U.S. military intervention in Iran — Doar defends Trump’s unorthodox approach to the alliance.
“It seems to me that it’s perfectly legitimate to say it’s 2026 now. Should we really have the same security apparatus and setup [for NATO] that we created in 1949? I mean, the president and his people have a point in saying that that was set up when we were facing a much different challenge,” says Doar.
Doar adds that the U.S. needs to stay focused on what he sees as the real test ahead:
“I think the deciding factor, if you’re talking about what we’re in right now, will be whether we recognize that China, Russia, North Korea and Iran are united adversaries against freedom and against free markets and free people and self-government. On its good days, I feel the Trump administration remembers that. And we need to just keep reminding them.”
This interview was recorded on June 22, 2026, and has been edited for length and clarity.
Ia Meurmishvili, editor-in-chief of Independence Avenue Media: You lead one of the most influential think tanks in Washington, D.C. You often advise administrations on policies, including the Trump administration, of course. At the start of the administration, there was frequent discussion about President Donald Trump being isolationist — that his “America First” policy was going to exclude America from the world. But that’s not quite what’s happened. How do you explain that and how would you define the administration today?
Robert Doar, president of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI): Well, I think it’s very clear that President Trump is willing to assert American power around the world. There’s no doubt about that. And that would make him not an isolationist. And so the sort of stereotype or the easy characterization of him as retreating to Fortress America isn’t really true. And it wasn’t true in the first administration either, when he was willing on certain occasions to use American power around the world.
The key thing is that he’s very careful with it, and he wants to make sure American interests are looked out for. And he also has a desire that we’re not being taken advantage of financially, that we don’t pay a bigger share of the bill or the cost or the casualties than any other part of the world that’s also engaged. He wants it to be a fair deal.
Whether it’s in Venezuela, whether it’s in Ukraine, whether it’s in Iran, President Trump is willing to use American power to advance American interests and to look out for American allies and even to project a power that looks to bring a more enlightened leadership to a particular country. He’s clearly willing to do that. So the stereotype of him as being a very adamant isolationist isn’t really true. Now he is complicated, and I’m happy to get into his complexities, but he’s not an isolationist.
IAM: When President Trump came to power the second time, his approval ratings, both on domestic politics as well as foreign policy, were quite high. I was looking at the numbers on RealClearPolitics, and on most issues President Trump’s ratings are much lower than they were before. In some cases, a large majority of Americans disapprove of his foreign policy as well as domestic politics. How do you explain what happened?
Doar: Well, the first thing to remember is he won a decisive victory in his second go-around [in 2024], and he overcame enormous disadvantages and lots of opposition, and he ran against an incumbent party. It’s an old story in American politics and in any self-governing democracy. People in power, as they expend political capital, as they make decisions, sometimes their support erodes. It doesn’t always happen, but it’s not unusual. And President Trump, being a president who’s not running for re-election and will not be on the ballot the next time, appears to be even less interested in worrying about poll numbers. And he claims, he says quite clearly, “I’m not worried about that.” Now his party is facing a real challenge in the [November 2026] midterms as a result of this sense in America that voters are not as pleased with him as they had been in the past. And there are a lot of factors in that, and it’s going to be quite an interesting election coming up.
But the idea that President Trump’s popularity being down from when he was inaugurated or when he was elected is something unique and unusual is just not correct. It happens to presidents all the time. That’s what happens when you assert leadership and do strong things. And one thing about President Trump is he has been willing to take the mandate that he received with his decisive [2024] victory, where his party won both the House and the Senate, and do strong, big things. And that’s gonna lead to the opposition sometimes being able to rally against him.
I would say that as the people outside of the United States look at the United States, they should recognize that President Trump doesn’t represent all of America. He doesn’t represent the heart of America. He’s the president, but many people in America think differently than he does.
I think [they’re] more supportive of Ukraine than he has been. And so, for people like me who are more supportive of Ukraine, that’s something to build on and to try to lead and capitalize on, but President Trump is a very unusual president. He’s sui generis (in a class by himself), as I say, and he’s particularly unique in that he’s not paying attention to polls. He’s just trying to do what he thinks is right on any given day.
IAM: What do you think his impact is for the Republican Party? You mentioned the upcoming midterms this November.
Doar: OK, so this is important history. President Trump has brought a lot of voters to the Republican Party. They are working-class, high-school-educated — what you would have thought in the past as old-line Democrats. They have moved toward President Trump and the Republican party, partly due to his leadership. And I think that’s still there and still is an important factor in the race.
In Republican or conservative politics, it’s a coalition of [on the one hand] people who are more similar to AEI scholars, who are very focused on less regulation and lower taxes and free markets and a global trading system and an immigration system that welcomes new people to our country. That group, a very important part of the Republican coalition, exists along with a populist, more nationalist, more culturally conservative — for legitimate reasons — group of more working-class Americans who feel strongly about faith, feel strongly about their families, feel strongly about the cultural qualities of America. They are also part of this Republican coalition. The key for Republicans in a race against Democrats is: Can they keep it together and get the turnout that they’ve gotten in the last elections when President Trump was on the ballot to allow them to win victories?
Political scholars here at AEI and others say that’s an open question whether they can do that. Because that coalition’s gotta turn out, and it’s unclear whether they will in the midterms. And so, political prognosticators here at AEI and in other places are saying that there’s a good chance the Democrats will take the House of Representatives, and even some chance that they could win the Senate. And that will mean that we have, as we’ve had many times in our history, a president who’s from one party and either one or both chambers from a different party. That’s how our system works.
And I like it that way. I like it that we have this back-and-forth, and that we have to go to the people every two years for the House and a third of the Senate. And that politics in America is, in that way, informed by the will of the people. That’s why we’re better — because we do go to the people and ask for their approval of our policies. This is in terms of all people who have elective politics and self-government as part of their system, which, of course, is not really true in Russia and not true in China or Iran or North Korea.
IAM: Okay. That’s a very nice pivot to foreign policy now and America’s role globally. President Trump has changed many things globally as well as even domestically. Where do you think America stands right now when it comes to its role internationally?
Doar: We’re the most prosperous country in the world in terms of GDP and size and growth of our economy, unquestionably. China is still far behind us in per capita GDP. Our military is still the strongest in the world in terms of its size. I think we’ve learned some lessons in the prosecuting of a war, from Ukraine, but we’re the strongest military force in the world. I think it is true that our lack of clarity on our objectives and our goals and our values and our hostility toward allies has led to us being viewed less favorably in the world. That, in certain situations, is a problem because we’re gonna need our allies at some point. And we have some work to do on that.
I also feel that the United States’ sort of clarion call for freedom, for self-government that previous presidents — President [Ronald] Reagan, most notably, but President [John F.] Kennedy and others — stood for has been diminished because President Trump’s administration is not the greatest advancer of democratic values and freedom, which is unfortunate. They’re more of a realpolitik and practical American national interests first, business interests first, over the self-determination or freedom of individual countries. I understand that, but that’s reduced our reputation with freedom-loving people around the world, which concerns me. But, you know, we’ve been through these things before and, hopefully, as time goes on, we’ll come back to being willing to talk positively about the benefits of freedom and self-government over authoritarian regimes more aggressively and more openly than the current administration does.
But there are other aspects of his foreign policy that I think have been quite successful. In American politics or in any kind of democratic system, you get some positives and you have to deal with some negatives. And you just keep at it and keep working on it and try to guide the country in the direction you want to go.
IAM: You mentioned love of freedom and American values. Today’s politics, especially coming from President Trump, seem very transactional. Allies, even adversaries, think that. So let me ask you this question in a more pointed way: Do you think American foreign policy still relies on American values at this point?
Doar: Well, again, I look at the long story. In the piece I wrote recently, and other pieces, I often refer to what President Kennedy called “the long twilight struggle.” I look at all of our presidents and our entire foreign policy over our history. There are ebbs and flows on this. But no one can look at the long history of the United States’ foreign policy since 1945 or since 1941 and not say that the United States has been a force for freedom and self-determination and independence for nations around the world.
So that’s what I look at. Right now, we have a president who’s putting a little different emphasis on different things. But when we tally up the amount of financial and military support to Ukraine for the entire period of the war since the Russian invasion, I think that you’re still going to find that the United States made a very significant contribution to that cause. And compared to our adversaries and our biggest challenger in the world, China, we were on the side of right and they weren’t.
I would say to Europeans and others, think of America more broadly than just our president or our current president at any time, whether it’s President Trump or someone else. I’ve seen statistics before in other times when America has not been so great at treating its allies or has put out some messages that make people feel less comfortable about the United States. It’s still the place people want to come to be a citizen and to start a life more than any other country. People can get — I can’t, I don’t — down on the United States because they don’t like the most recent remarks of the current president, whether it’s Trump or [former President Joe] Biden or anyone. But I look at the bigger picture.
That’s what I particularly like about [Italian Prime Minister] Giorgia Meloni’s comments over the weekend. She said a funny thing. She said, [paraphrase]”I don’t understand why the American president feels the need to say these things that aren’t correct.” And what she did there, she didn’t say “Donald Trump.” She made the statement that almost sounded like “I expect more from the American president because I have greater faith in the United States.” And I like that. I like that tone. And I think that’s the tone that Europe should take.
IAM: You mentioned how the world reacts to President Trump’s statements. One of the recent statements was that the United States has no vital stake in Ukraine. Would you agree with that statement by the administration?
Doar: I don’t. Our scholars don’t agree with that. We think that the United States’ interests in Ukraine relate not only to our desire to support free and independent nations, but also that if Russia is successful there, they will perpetrate further damage to other countries and that is then gonna lead to costs to the United States. I should say that I’m not a foreign policy expert, but I represent an institution that has many foreign policy experts. And I do think that when American experts say that the war in Ukraine is about us it’s because if after [Russia] gets Ukraine, they’re gonna come after us or they’re gonna go to every other country in Europe — that line has been used in America with American voters in many other contexts and for a long time. And I would say, just as someone who observes political opinion, it doesn’t actually work that well.
In my own judgment, you can get further with [people] by saying that the United States should stand up for nations fighting for freedom because it’s the right thing to do than you can [by] saying, “If we don’t fight Russia in Ukraine, your living standards are gonna drop.” I don’t think they buy that. I think they don’t think it’s true.
MORE: The U.S. Has Lost Leverage on Ukraine, Says Former Bush Official
IAM: You were recently in Ukraine. What was your impression from being there, from seeing and meeting people?
Doar: Well, I was very impressed by the people of Ukraine. I was very impressed by the people of Moldova and the leadership of both Moldova and of Ukraine in that they were in a real battle with a power that was stronger and bigger and had more people. They were fighting for freedom and they were persevering and they were being resilient. I was also very impressed that in Odesa or in Kyiv, or in between, people were going about their business in a positive way. I was very taken by that. I also happened to be at a conference that involved competing politicians in the Ukrainian government and legislature — competing politicians with each other and with President [Volodymyr] Zelenskyy. And then I went to a conference in Kyiv, where again I was exposed to the hurly-burly of a country that has people that are jostling for power in an open and free way. And I like that. I thought that was great. I don’t think that sort of thing is what I would see if I went to Moscow. And that’s why I identify with Ukraine in their battle. I was very, very impressed with what’s going on there.
IAM: If you were advising President Trump, what would be your advice to him related to Ukraine?
Doar: I would tell him, as our scholars have told him, that he should support them with both military and financial help. He should also insist that Europe support them as well and increase their spending on defense to closer to 5%. I would also tell him that he should condemn the actions of [Russian President] Vladimir Putin.
IAM: You’ve previously commented that some Republicans have different opinions from President Trump when it comes to Russia and President Putin. Walk us through that. What’s that difference?
Doar: Well, it’s not hard to walk through. You go over and you look at the congressional record or you study the remarks of, I would say, more than the majority of the Republican caucus in the Senate — certainly the same with Democrats. Their rhetoric about President Putin and the invasion of Ukraine is much stronger [than Trump’s], but they’re not president.
They can say it and they can feel it and they can try to persuade him, but he’s in charge. You have to respect that. He has the role in foreign policy which we give to the president, which is quite strong. But to say that because President Trump isn’t quite as good on this issue as you’d like him to be, [that], therefore, all Republicans or all members of Congress are lost is just not factually correct.
IAM: We have a NATO summit coming up [on July 7-8] in Ankara, Turkiye. President Trump, I believe, is going to attend it. What are the messages that you would like to see coming out from President Trump at that summit? How do you think the Europeans should respond? What do you think Europeans should deliver at the summit?
Doar: Well, that’s a tricky one. NATO is a harder issue, especially if you’re thinking about President Trump’s attitude. Here’s one thing I have thought: It seems to me that it’s perfectly legitimate to say it’s 2026 now. Should we really have the same security apparatus and setup [for NATO] that we created in 1949? I mean, the president and his people have a point in saying that that was set up when we were facing a much different challenge. And the countries of Europe — France, Germany and others — were in much different circumstances and situations. And of course, the USSR was much different. The idea that we shouldn’t be rethinking or thinking anew, as President [Abraham] Lincoln would say, how we should set up our various responses to difficult public policy challenges, to me is silly. The rhetoric that says it’s been this way for all this time and it’s been great, therefore, we should keep it as it is, that’s not enough to make the case. We need to come up with something new for this different time.
MORE: ‘Devastating Blow’ to NATO if U.S. Withdraws — Former Ambassador
IAM: Imagine looking back at this time — a very pivotal moment in U.S. history and global history, and a power realignment globally. What do you think we’ll consider as the point that sort of either makes or breaks another American century?
Doar: Well, that’s a very big one. That’s a much bigger question than just the situation in Eastern Europe. I might have to think about that a little bit. Rhetoric about the American century is fraught with all kinds of issues that I’d rather not mention. I will just say that for the United States to remain a leading power in the world and a force for freedom and independence, it needs to continue to shoulder, and be willing to shoulder, that responsibility. Not alone, but in a leading way. And, as I’ve mentioned before, over the long haul, I think it’s hard to argue that the United States has not done its part. I think the deciding factor, if you’re talking about what we’re in right now, will be whether we recognize that China, Russia, North Korea and Iran are united adversaries against freedom and against free markets and free people and self-government. On its good days, I feel the Trump administration remembers that. And we need to just keep reminding them. If they lose sight of that, then I think we won’t have as successful an American century for the world and for America for the rest of this century.
MORE: Experts Tell Congress Russia Has Helped Iran Target American Forces
